Henry is in conversation with Chris McQueen from the Stroke Association. With Happy’s help, Chris and his team developed a set of five principles that drive the decisions the organisation makes, and how they want to work.
The Association is a traditionally hierarchical organisation, but through the “Happy MBA”, they’ve created more interdependence within team-members, with less need for knowledge and instructions to be passed down through the hierarchy.
Chris’ three tips for a happier workplace
- Build a culture of trust.
- Set clear boundaries.
- Create a safe environment where people are willing to try new things.
Links
- The Stroke Association
- Level 7 Senior Leadership Apprenticeship Programme
- Liberating Structures Immersion Workshop
Transcript
Welcome to session three of the Happy Manifesto podcast.
Speaker:I'm delighted to have Chris McQueen as our interviewee today.
Speaker:Chris is on our level seven senior leaders program, or as I
Speaker:like to call it, the Happy MBA.
Speaker:And we'll hear from him in a moment, but Maureen, what has
Speaker:created joy for you at work?
Speaker:What's created joy for me is actually being able to get into the office.
Speaker:You know, working from home has been a delight, but I've come in
Speaker:and I've seen my Happy family.
Speaker:You know, it's fantastic cuz normally they're just on the
Speaker:screen on our Zoom meetings.
Speaker:But to actually see them, it's a totally different energy, you know?
Speaker:And it?
Speaker:is, it is.
Speaker:So I miss it.
Speaker:One thing I must say is I'm actually really grateful that I know that I have
Speaker:the choice to ever work from home, but the opportunity also to come into the office.
Speaker:And just seeing them and being able to give hugs.
Speaker:Ah, love it.
Speaker:hugs.
Speaker:I'm missing the hugs.
Speaker:That's one of the things that we're really well known for at Happy is
Speaker:about the hugging, you know, so, ah, so Henry, what's giving you joy?
Speaker:Well, it's given, well, I, um, I, I've almost finished my book.
Speaker:Oh wow.
Speaker:The Creating Joy at Work Nickables.
Speaker:501 ideas for how to create a happy workplace.
Speaker:Oh, I love that.
Speaker:And your happy tip?
Speaker:My happy tip.
Speaker:So I was thinking about this happy tip and um, uh, for those who do not
Speaker:know, I facilitate apprenticeships and actually here at Happy.
Speaker:We have lots of meetings.
Speaker:We talk about meetings a lot, and one of the things I thought was a great
Speaker:share, great tip, will be knowing to start your meetings positively.
Speaker:Ah, okay.
Speaker:Because I know, have you ever been, so Henry, have you ever been to meetings
Speaker:where it feels really hard or heavy?
Speaker:You know when people are just focusing on what's going wrong?
Speaker:And we we tend not to do that at Happy though.
Speaker:We tend,
Speaker:No.
Speaker:And hence why, because we start our meetings positively.
Speaker:So, and it could be really simple, just asking people
Speaker:like, what's gone well for you?
Speaker:What are you looking forward to?
Speaker:And that changes the energy.
Speaker:You know, they do they also do that at Lego?
Speaker:Really?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Apparently at Lego they start every meeting with something positive.
Speaker:See, so everybody needs to get on board, share with us what happens, you
Speaker:know, how are, what's the difference?
Speaker:how it goes.
Speaker:So, uh, my, my idea for happy workplace is we are, um, from last
Speaker:year we decided, I used to decide the salary pool myself, right?
Speaker:As the founder of the company, I would decide what was in the salary pool,
Speaker:you know, how much everyone would get.
Speaker:But last year and this year, we are generating it from our staff.
Speaker:So the staff decide how much is in that salary pot.
Speaker:Um, and I think that's fabulous because some, when, when you discuss, we say,
Speaker:but won't they just make it huge?
Speaker:But actually no, because our people, you know, understand the finances,
Speaker:they understand what's involved in that, and actually they tend
Speaker:to do about the same as I did.
Speaker:But it, what it, what it means is it is shared, uh, entirely
Speaker:and involves everybody.
Speaker:You know how best a way to be open and transparent about how
Speaker:well the organization's doing in terms of finances and then getting
Speaker:everybody have their input on terms of how much their salary would be?
Speaker:Well, question I have for you, Henry, about that.
Speaker:How does it feel no longer making that decision?
Speaker:You know, actually letting go of that decision.
Speaker:Cause that's quite a big decision to give.
Speaker:It is a bit nervous.
Speaker:It is a bit, you know, um, I mean, cuz there is that idea that maybe people
Speaker:just, you know, put 500,000 or something, but, but they don't, they, they don't.
Speaker:Um, and that's what happens when you have a work, uh, workforce
Speaker:that is fully involved in the decisions of the organization.
Speaker:Yes, yes.
Speaker:And I can vouch for that.
Speaker:I mean, I haven't put down a 500,000 extra, um, but it is because
Speaker:everyone is bought in and they care about the organization and
Speaker:we all want to prosper together.
Speaker:So it's a great idea.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Okay, let's move on to Chris McQueen.
Speaker:Today I'm interviewing one of our clients.
Speaker:Chris McQueen from the stroke association who is on, uh, level seven senior leaders.
Speaker:What I like to call the happy MBA.
Speaker:So Chris, tell me what ideas have you been putting into practice?
Speaker:Well, I think the, the big one that stands out for us is when we came to
Speaker:do our corporate strategy and, uh, we handed over probably one of the
Speaker:most important parts of the strategy to the organization to develop.
Speaker:Oh, um, Essentially that meant inviting people from across the organization
Speaker:to put themselves forward, to be part of a small team that would develop
Speaker:the strategic principles that are the kind of bedrock of our strategy.
Speaker:So, uh, this required the courage from our executive team to, to sort
Speaker:of hand this part of it over and
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I bet.
Speaker:Cause you, you normally quite hi organization, is that right?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:That, that was very much our tradition.
Speaker:Um, and strategy seen as a top down sort of process.
Speaker:So we had a good response.
Speaker:We had about, uh, Four times oversubscribed.
Speaker:We had 12, 12 places on the team and, um, the people we selected were, were
Speaker:people with good networks, people who within the organization had, had, had
Speaker:sort of good networks with, with peers.
Speaker:And, um, yeah, they started out as this group of diverse, not very experienced
Speaker:people, all kinds of different roles, administrators, fundraisers, coordinators,
Speaker:and, um, over a period about 11 weeks, they were supported through a process
Speaker:of, of visiting other organizations to see how they did things, with some
Speaker:of the big questions that we were facing as a charity, um, they visited,
Speaker:um volunteer organizations in the Netherlands, uh, to see very different
Speaker:models of how organizations could work.
Speaker:And meantime, the whole organization was kind of channeling thoughts and
Speaker:ideas about what our priorities, what our principles should be through
Speaker:Yammer and, and other channels.
Speaker:And this little group was sort of engaging in conversation with
Speaker:people all across the organization.
Speaker:Um, our sort of Yammer traffic doubled during this period.
Speaker:There's a lot of energy, lot of excitement.
Speaker:And, um, then at the end, at the end of 11 weeks, this group had to present the,
Speaker:the principles they'd come up with, to the board of directors and our executive team.
Speaker:And I was just, I was amazed at the transformation from this disparate group
Speaker:of, of inexperienced people to this, what emerged with this highly cohesive,
Speaker:articulate, confident group who presented this, these really well thought through
Speaker:principles and were able to defend them, and sell them to the organization.
Speaker:And those principles, five strategic principles have, have
Speaker:stood the test of time for us.
Speaker:They, you know, we are using them all the time to really provide the decisions we
Speaker:make about what kind of organization we want to be and how do we want to work?
Speaker:So the product was really good, but I was also amazed at the kind of
Speaker:transformation that, having trusted this group and, and the group had
Speaker:received high quality support.
Speaker:They'd been coached, they'd been supported, uh, to capture the
Speaker:insights that they were having.
Speaker:And then to sort of consolidate that into a set of five principles, but
Speaker:it really demonstrated for me the potential, the latent potential in
Speaker:groups when they're well supported and trusted to produce great things.
Speaker:And do they work full-time for those 11 weeks or were they
Speaker:also doing their, their day job?
Speaker:Yeah, that was, that was an important factor, cuz there was
Speaker:quite a big time commitment in this.
Speaker:So, what we tried to do was sort of, allow them, uh, to, to offload some
Speaker:of their responsibilities to others and to have others covering for them.
Speaker:It was still highly intensive and I.
Speaker:That period of time was about the limit of what you could expect someone to.
Speaker:Um, they were working long hours, but there was also a
Speaker:tremendous energy, um, as well.
Speaker:And have they gone on to do other stuff, uh, within the organization.
Speaker:I think we've seen a number of them rise up the, the, the organization
Speaker:into, into more senior roles.
Speaker:Quite a number of them have, have chosen to move on.
Speaker:And I think in a sense, that's also a signal of how they've grown
Speaker:in, in confidence and capability.
Speaker:And you usually, how, how long ago was it that this.
Speaker:This happened in 2018.
Speaker:And you're still using these, these five strategic ideas, right?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Using these principles and actually the further we make our cultural
Speaker:sort of journey, um, the more relevant these principles become.
Speaker:And I think in a sense they were a bit ahead of their time in the organization.
Speaker:One of them, for example, talks about unleashing potential and is all
Speaker:about, you know, how you can trust people and give them autonomy and,
Speaker:and they can rise to the challenge.
Speaker:And and, and we're starting to see the fruit of, of some of
Speaker:those ways of working, even if it was a bit sort of visionary at
Speaker:the time to be talking in those.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:There's more about that.
Speaker:So how are you, how are you seeing the fruits of that?
Speaker:Yeah, so when we set up project teams, trying to be clear about the fact that
Speaker:they have the right to make decisions and trying to help them clarify those
Speaker:decision rights so that they know what decisions they can take and, and decisions
Speaker:they should be seeking advice about.
Speaker:And with trying to purposefully give those teams a greater level of autonomy.
Speaker:It's a learning process.
Speaker:But I think, um, yeah, I think we're seeing some encouraging results.
Speaker:We we're just introducing this thing called the advice process.
Speaker:Because I think we were finding that, um, it was all very well talking about trust
Speaker:and empowerment, but people would say some people would start to make decisions
Speaker:that would, that would tread on other people's toes or, or, or be going too far.
Speaker:Other people were reluctant to make decisions cuz they were looking for, for
Speaker:someone higher up to, to decide for them.
Speaker:And there was some confusion about, you know, what am I entitled to decide?
Speaker:How do we make decisions well?
Speaker:So, you know, learning from other organizations and from this Happy MBA,
Speaker:um, we've recently introduced the advice process along with a sort of decision
Speaker:rights tool, which is just a table for documenting the kinds of decisions we
Speaker:anticipate will need to make in this team, who should be the decision maker, and
Speaker:what kind of approach to making decisions?
Speaker:Should we take the small stuff, the detail stuff, people can just get on
Speaker:and, and decide, but, whether there's an impact on others or whether or others
Speaker:who have expertise, then we should use the advice process to, to seek advice.
Speaker:So it works like this.
Speaker:Basically, within those boundaries of the decision rights, anybody can
Speaker:make any decision, provided they first seek the advice of anyone who
Speaker:will be impacted by that decision.
Speaker:And secondly, by those who have expertise in the matter.
Speaker:So this process, you know, seeking advice, they're not forced to take the
Speaker:advice, but they do need to consider it, and then integrate that into their
Speaker:proposal before they make the decision.
Speaker:And then we're encouraging a kind of closing of the loop so that when the
Speaker:decision is made you report back to those you've sought advice from, to
Speaker:say, this is, thank you for your advice.
Speaker:This is, you know, what I've decided and why.
Speaker:and can you give an example of, of when a case where this has happened?
Speaker:We've got a project that is, um, focusing on how we can increase
Speaker:the numbers of newly diagnosed stroke survivors that we are able
Speaker:to reach and offer some support to.
Speaker:And, uh, it's, it's clear there that to implement positive changes to allow
Speaker:us to make contact with more people who've, who've recently had a stroke,
Speaker:there's going to need to be a lot of contact with hospitals, we're going to
Speaker:have to intercept referral pathways.
Speaker:And, and so the, the people in our organization who, who are responsible
Speaker:for that are distributed around the country, in our, in our 10 localities.
Speaker:So, before the sort of central team decides whether something is viable,
Speaker:uh, as, as a, as an approach for sort of increasing the number of people we
Speaker:can reach, we need to seek the advice of those in our various localities
Speaker:to say, What do you think about this?
Speaker:We're proposing this, uh, way of intercepting the referral mechanism,
Speaker:or we're proposing to set up this arrangement in hospital so that people
Speaker:would have a greater awareness of us.
Speaker:Would that work in your locality?
Speaker:And, because those locality teams will, they they have the best knowledge
Speaker:of, of the situation on the ground, but also they're gonna be affected.
Speaker:If we, if we implement these approaches, they're the ones
Speaker:gonna have to carry them out.
Speaker:So it's really important that we're kind of seeking the advice of these,
Speaker:uh, key people across the organization.
Speaker:And you're talking here about frontline staff, not managers, is that right?
Speaker:I think it's a combination.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Frontline staff who, who will be sort of engaging directly with hospitals,
Speaker:but also, people who, whose role is to influence so that decision makers
Speaker:within the health and care system can be influenced to, to support us
Speaker:in this endeavor to make sure more people get the support they need.
Speaker:Sounds good one.
Speaker:And, um, anymore, anymore, I, uh, things you've done to create happy workplaces.
Speaker:Uh, we've been really trying to implement these things called
Speaker:liberating structures in our meetings.
Speaker:They're little tools and practices you can apply in a meeting, which
Speaker:help to give everybody a voice.
Speaker:And some of them really help you to come at a problem from a different angle
Speaker:so that you can generate new ideas.
Speaker:But they're very inclusive in that they make sure that everybody's voice is heard.
Speaker:And, um, you know, it was through the, the Happy program
Speaker:that we became aware of these.
Speaker:And, uh, a few of our other people in the organization have now attended,
Speaker:uh, liberating, structured courses, and we're seeing them now much more
Speaker:commonplace within our meetings.
Speaker:Something called 1, 2, 4, all is a very quick way to get people thinking about
Speaker:a question or an idea in a very short space of time, get them warmed up, sharing
Speaker:perspectives, thinking individually, sharing with a, with a, with a partner
Speaker:and then opening up to a group of four before sharing back to everybody.
Speaker:So little tools, very quick, uh, very easy to implement, but they give a
Speaker:lot of life to, to, to a meeting.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It, it absolutely involves everybody.
Speaker:Doesn't it?
Speaker:It's, that's the great thing about it.
Speaker:It does.
Speaker:And you've got, um, an idea on, on coaching, not managing haven't you?
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:We've we're very much particularly with these frontline staff, we're focusing
Speaker:on coaching rather than managing, so helping ask good questions that, that
Speaker:help the, the person of a team to retain ownership of their work and,
Speaker:and of the issues they're facing.
Speaker:I think it's so easy for someone unintentionally to step in with advice.
Speaker:And all of a sudden the ownership has gone as has come back to them.
Speaker:The person or the team are now looking to them for the solution
Speaker:rather than benefiting from working at the solution out for themselves,
Speaker:which may well be a better solution.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:And again, have you got an example of that?
Speaker:I guess the day to day ones are within the, um, the delivery
Speaker:of our frontline services.
Speaker:So if, if people have issues that they're facing with a particular,
Speaker:uh, client, questions about what we may or may not be able to offer them,
Speaker:those kinds of, of, of questions.
Speaker:I think we're encouraging the coaches to connect those people with other people
Speaker:who might have the answer or else.
Speaker:Help them work through what might be an appropriate response for themselves.
Speaker:So in the past, would that have been a manager telling people this is what you
Speaker:should do with this client and, and now it's now it's approach supporting them?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:In the past, it would've been coordinator simply passing it back to
Speaker:the manager and waiting for the answer.
Speaker:And then implementing the answer, but our managers were, became
Speaker:overwhelmed with just, you know, answering these kinds of things.
Speaker:And, you know, we felt that our coordinators had a lot of potential, you
Speaker:know, they have a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience, and capability to come up
Speaker:with good solutions for themselves, but were never really encouraged or rarely
Speaker:encouraged to do so in the old system.
Speaker:And so what, how are those people finding it now, then?
Speaker:There's a mixture?
Speaker:I think some are flourishing in this environment.
Speaker:Some are questioning some, I think appreciated the comfort of just being
Speaker:able to pass things back and in the sense for it to be someone else's problem.
Speaker:So we're just having to work through those things.
Speaker:With our coaches, there's a lot of unlearning to do as well because some
Speaker:of our coaches were former managers.
Speaker:They derive value from providing the answer, and so it's very easy for them
Speaker:to step into a managing role there.
Speaker:So we, we are working it through and I think the key thing is that we're,
Speaker:we're having conversations where the coaches themselves are working together
Speaker:within a kind of peer support group.
Speaker:We're trying to, to work in an open fashion where the issues that the
Speaker:challenges that we're seeing can be surfaced and we can talk about how best to
Speaker:resolve them and, and, and groups that are seeing some progress and, and, and seeing
Speaker:some exciting results are able to share what they're doing with, with others.
Speaker:I'm quite impressed by you all you've done there.
Speaker:So the drug actually quite a large organization, isn't how many people employ
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Up somewhere near 700, probably two thirds of those being these frontline
Speaker:stroke delivery coordinators.
Speaker:So, so you've managed for quite an impact there.
Speaker:I think so it's, it's obviously been a process we've been on for some time.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think the happy MBA has given.
Speaker:And a real impetus to it because, there's been an opportunity to, to
Speaker:learn from experienced practitioners and, and speak directly with them.
Speaker:Learn from peers.
Speaker:Um, each.
Speaker:Month.
Speaker:We have a workshop where we are sort of, um, we we're covering a particular
Speaker:aspect of, of happy workplaces.
Speaker:And, and we're able to then apply that learning into the organization.
Speaker:So I've, I've found this sort of being on this course as sort of driving me
Speaker:a bit to, to, to experiment and to engage with people who are showing an
Speaker:interest and say, why don't we try this?
Speaker:Recently, for example, we were thinking, how can we help teams to, if we want
Speaker:them to be a bit more autonomous, how can we help them to manage or monitor their
Speaker:performance a little bit more effectively?
Speaker:So we'd, we'd heard a talk from, from a lady called Helen Sanderson who has
Speaker:implemented, uh, a number of practices in the teams in her organization.
Speaker:And we reached out to her and, and we're doing a small piece of work.
Speaker:We're on a small scale, just with two teams.
Speaker:We are learning these practices, things, things called confirmation practices.
Speaker:And we're trying it out on a small scale first.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Tell us about confirmation practices.
Speaker:Do you have, do you have one yourself?
Speaker:I do.
Speaker:I, I I'm I'm my team is one of the two teams that are, are trying this.
Speaker:Essentially.
Speaker:We're starting by thinking about our roles as individuals.
Speaker:So there's an individual confirmation practice process and it starts by thing.
Speaker:What, what, what roles do I perform in, in my job?
Speaker:And what, what do I think good looks like if I was performing that role to
Speaker:a high standard, what would I be doing?
Speaker:And, and how would I know that, that I was doing that role well?
Speaker:What, how would I know that I, I could be pleased
Speaker:and that's something they define themselves rather than asking
Speaker:a manager or peer to do, yeah?
Speaker:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker:It's something you develop yourself.
Speaker:Our, our established practice tends to focus more on, on objectives.
Speaker:And so looking at roles is an Interestingly different perspective
Speaker:that I found quite a lot of value.
Speaker:And it's helping identify some of those things that are on the important, but not
Speaker:urgent list that sometimes get crowded out by a focus just on objectives.
Speaker:And the objectives tend to draw your, your focus.
Speaker:How do I deliver this?
Speaker:How do I deliver this?
Speaker:And not, how do I develop these long term things that, that, that
Speaker:probably just as important for the organization, but, uh, don't get.
Speaker:And do you have a complimentary statement yourself?
Speaker:What I've got, I suppose is.
Speaker:Is a set of, um, six roles with, with an understanding of what good looks like.
Speaker:So, so strategy facilitator, I'm I'm, I'm trying to encourage project teams
Speaker:to think strategically about what they're doing and to facilitate, help
Speaker:them see how, what they're doing can sort of contribute to our purpose.
Speaker:I'm a culture champion.
Speaker:So I'm all this happy stuff.
Speaker:I'm, I'm really trying to promote and role model and, and champion
Speaker:this shift of our culture.
Speaker:And you have a definition of what, what goes at what level on, on each of those?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I, I firstly, for each of these roles, I say, why what's the purpose?
Speaker:Why, why, why am I doing this role?
Speaker:What does good look like?
Speaker:And then how would I know, what would I measure?
Speaker:And what does good look like in culture champion?
Speaker:So culture champion is where I am, I I'm engaged broadly across the
Speaker:organization with people to help them understand different ways of doing
Speaker:things culturally, behaviorally.
Speaker:And where I'm seeing evidence that, that these ideas are taking
Speaker:root in the organization that people are starting to implement,
Speaker:um, these things for themselves.
Speaker:So I'm measuring myself on am I, am I engaging sufficiently broadly and with
Speaker:the right, with a mix of people, and then are those engagements leading to
Speaker:any evidence of change of people picking stuff up, or if people able to move
Speaker:forward in what they're trying to do?
Speaker:And how is that different from objective?
Speaker:The objective system as we currently have, it would say by the end of the year, I'd
Speaker:like to have achieved this kind of change in, in this, in the space of culture.
Speaker:And then perhaps on a quarterly process, I'll check in on that and, and see how,
Speaker:how, whether I think I'm progressing.
Speaker:To be honest, I don't think culture often features as a major objective.
Speaker:Often, often the objectives are delivery of this project or that,
Speaker:and, and so, um, but the difference with confirmation practices is,
Speaker:is the heartbeat is more rapid.
Speaker:So every couple of weeks I'm looking through my roles and saying, Which of
Speaker:these is the am I least happy about mm-hmm if I was to sort of measure
Speaker:myself, what score would I give myself on each of these six roles and for the
Speaker:lowest one or the one that's causing me most concern, what might be one thing
Speaker:in the next two weeks that I could do to, to try and move that score up so
Speaker:I'm happier with the role I'm playing?
Speaker:So it's, it's continuous.
Speaker:And I do it with a peer.
Speaker:So a peer is there asking me questions, Chris, you know, what have
Speaker:you scored yourself on your roles?
Speaker:And which would, which is the one that's giving you most concern?
Speaker:And that's a peer rather than a manager.
Speaker:It's a peer.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And that's another big difference.
Speaker:So, we've been trying this in teams and, and actually what it's revealed I
Speaker:think is not only is it strengthening our relationships within teams, but
Speaker:some of my colleagues who are doing this are saying, we are learning.
Speaker:We thought we were okay in this.
Speaker:And actually this process is surfacing issues that need to be attended to
Speaker:that, that our previous process wasn't.
Speaker:So, oh, really?
Speaker:So we're learning new, new things about how we can be improving
Speaker:the roles we play and, and, you know, the effectiveness of them.
Speaker:So I think it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's asking questions in a different way with a
Speaker:peer on a more rapid frequency and itself, you know, it's me assessing myself.
Speaker:Sounds good.
Speaker:Sounds good.
Speaker:Yeah, that sounds some great ideas.
Speaker:So, so my, my last point is what are your three tips for workplace happiness?
Speaker:It's a bit obvious, but I don't think you can achieve workplace happiness
Speaker:without a sort of culture of trust where fundamentally you are, you, you are,
Speaker:you're believing the best in people.
Speaker:You're believing that people fundamentally wanna do a good job and
Speaker:that they're capable of rising to the challenge when trusted and supported.
Speaker:So I think, yeah, whether it's policies, processes, things that demonstrate trust.
Speaker:secondly though, I think you have to.
Speaker:Clear boundaries.
Speaker:People need to know the space in which they can innovate,
Speaker:create and make decisions.
Speaker:So I think that kind of clarity of decision, rights, boundaries,
Speaker:guidelines, what's expected of them.
Speaker:The third one, I, I, I think is about.
Speaker:Encouragement.
Speaker:I, I, I think there's tremendous power in encouraging people when
Speaker:you see something they're doing that is, that is good, that is, um,
Speaker:valuable particularly in the moment.
Speaker:But I, I, I think you need to have a culture that is really focusing on, on,
Speaker:on, on what's happening that's good.
Speaker:I think that's, that's a very powerful way actually, to improve people's confidence,
Speaker:motivation, and, and performance and, and the culture in which you can try
Speaker:things and it's not, uh, you're not afraid if they, if they don't work out.
Speaker:So trying to get away from this culture of fear.
Speaker:And a willingness to try things, recognizing that they weren't
Speaker:all work, but that's fine.
Speaker:We, we learn and move on.
Speaker:What I really liked about that Maureen was that, that involving
Speaker:the frontline staff in the strategy.
Speaker:So, and that really enables them to take, take leadership, not just in the strategy,
Speaker:but uh, leadership on a wider level.
Speaker:Oh, no, totally.
Speaker:I mean.
Speaker:I know most organizations are like top down, you know, and for the fact,
Speaker:and I love the words that he used.
Speaker:It's like being courageous, you know, and then seeing the results.
Speaker:At the end of the day of that this changed people's lives, not just for
Speaker:them, but also for the organization
Speaker:Because of course, you know when you are working for the stroke association,
Speaker:you do change people's lives.
Speaker:I, I love it.
Speaker:And, but most importantly for me was that it wasn't just a tick box exercise.
Speaker:It was about making sure that everyone felt well supported, and you used that
Speaker:well supported all the way through.
Speaker:Not only were they supported internally, but externally and given coaching,
Speaker:so all the ingredients for success.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:I, we, I think we'll look at, look at them carefully.
Speaker:How they, how they develop, won't we?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Exciting.
Speaker:You know, imagine I've, I've got other organizations took that approach as well,
Speaker:Wouldn't it?
Speaker:Wouldn't it be fabulous?
Speaker:But of course those involved in the level seven, our Happy
Speaker:MBA, they are all doing that.
Speaker:Um, they are all transforming their organizations and we'll, we'll speak to
Speaker:some more of them in the coming weeks.
Speaker:Don't they?
Speaker:That's it.
Speaker:You know, organizations can transform and create that joy at work.
Speaker:And that is what it's all about, isn't it?
Speaker:Creating joy at work.
Speaker:Yes, and listen.
Speaker:We will see you next time on a podcast speaking to another expert,