Ricardo Semler’s radical book Maverick is now 30 years old. Happy was an early adopter of some of its key principles, and when software company cofounder Zahid Malik was looking for implementation examples, Happy was just about the only one he found.
As Semler’s work suggests, implementing a culture of trust, freedom, and autonomy can have a transformative impact on a company. By allowing employees to make decisions, fostering open communication, and providing guidelines and frameworks, organisations can create a happy and productive workplace. But it’s important to strike a balance and ensure that the right people are in the organisation who can thrive in a Maverick environment.
Zahid is the founder of called Risr. They specialise in providing software for education and training organisations to help them manage and run their assessments, exams, and continuing professional development. While he’s faced challenges in implementing the principles of Maverick, he’s striven to create autonomous units within his organisation, allowing teams to make decisions and operate in ways that best serve their customers.
Zahid’s top tips for a happy workplace
- Having freedom and autonomy is crucial for a happy workplace. Allowing employees to make decisions and have control over their work contributes to their overall satisfaction.
- But not everyone may thrive in an environment like this, so it’s essential to ensure that employees align with the company’s values and ways of working.
- Providing employees with clear guidelines and boundaries within which they can exercise their freedom helps bring structure and prevents chaos in the workplace.
Links
- Connect with Zahid via LinkedIn
- Risr – Zahid’s company
- Maverick: The Success Story Behind the World’s Most Unusual Workshop, by Ricardo Semler
- Creating joy at work – Episode 2 with Cathy Busani
- Reinventing Organizations: A Guide to Creating Organizations Inspired by the Next Stage in Human Consciousness, by Frederic Laloux
- Bullshit Jobs: The Rise of Pointless Work, and What We Can Do About it, by David Graeber
Transcript
Hello, I'm Henry.
Speaker:And I'm Maureen, Maureen Egbe.
Speaker:And today we have Zahid Malik from Ris R Slash, who runs a
Speaker:self-managing organization, and has worked with Happy for many years.
Speaker:And I'll be talking to him about Maverick by Ricardo Semler about, um, uh,
Speaker:whether, uh, workers should set their own salaries, um, and all kinds of things.
Speaker:So tell me, Maureen, what has been joyful for you?
Speaker:Well, I was thinking about this and I had to go and look at my diaries,
Speaker:like what's happened this week?
Speaker:So thank you for the opportunity to actually take time and reflect on this.
Speaker:And um, what came up for me was a discussion I had of an
Speaker:apprentice who's on our global majority apprenticeship program.
Speaker:And she just, she shared with me, um, a situation that happened
Speaker:in the workplace where she's now taken on a new role as a manager.
Speaker:And she was all excited and just sent an email to the team.
Speaker:We're gonna implement this new strategy and we are gonna do this new process.
Speaker:And guess what happened?
Speaker:Henry, what do you think?
Speaker:What?
Speaker:What happened?
Speaker:Pushback.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:She was telling them what she wanted to do.
Speaker:And then she said to me, she, it hit her.
Speaker:She sent an email and apologized straight away and acknowledged the importance of
Speaker:the team, and she wanted their feedback to discuss what, how they could go forwards.
Speaker:So we sat and we celebrated this, this reflection, this insight,
Speaker:and it was that whole thing of acknowledging and valuing your team.
Speaker:So that really gave me joy to hear that.
Speaker:So what, what was your joyful moment?
Speaker:Well this, uh, this morning I was speaking at the Hackney Social Founders Network
Speaker:led by Carolyn Deal, and there's a whole range of of founders there, uh, in.
Speaker:Incredibly inclusive.
Speaker:There was, uh, a jazz cafe where people pay what they want.
Speaker:There was somebody who worked in the pandemic and got 6,000
Speaker:meals every day to people.
Speaker:Um, there, there, there's, there's people who work with ex prisoners who,
Speaker:uh, reintegrate them into society.
Speaker:There's people who work with disadvantaged children to make sure
Speaker:that they get back into, into society.
Speaker:Oh, it was just, just amazing.
Speaker:Sounds awesome.
Speaker:What were you speaking about?
Speaker:I was speaking about happy as a founder, as a founder of
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:That sounds.
Speaker:But the other interesting thing was, um, one of the founders had
Speaker:a daughter there who, and she explained how she used TikTok on her
Speaker:founders, on the, the founder's site.
Speaker:And I'm getting together with her to see if I can use TikTok.
Speaker:I feel you'll be awesome on TikTok.
Speaker:With all of those colorful shirts?
Speaker:I feel that it needs to be, the POD podcast is not good
Speaker:enough to show your shirts.
Speaker:You need to be on TikTok.
Speaker:so we'll find out later whether, whether I get, use tikTok.
Speaker:Okay, so now over to Zahid Malik of Ris R Slash.
Speaker:So Saed, um, we've been working together quite a long time, haven't we?
Speaker:We first, uh, got together over Maverick.
Speaker:This is going back to I think the mid nineties, when I was an academic at
Speaker:Imperial College, I think I first heard of Ricardo Semler, I think it was a sort
Speaker:of a clip on the B B C, either news or a documentary about this sort of, uh,
Speaker:about this company called Semco, um, and then I found out that there was a book
Speaker:about that called Maverick by Ricardo Semler which I bought and was sort of,
Speaker:you know, was blown away by it, really..
Speaker:I was amazed that you could, um, that you could have a
Speaker:company that worked like this.
Speaker:Um, and the more I read about it, the more I became interested in business
Speaker:and sort of, you know, I, I, I was, I was doing sort of research at, at,
Speaker:at university, but it was in, in the electrical engineering department.
Speaker:but they always encouraged us to have an interest in business and, uh, we were
Speaker:always talking to companies, uh, you know, electronic companies and so on.
Speaker:But I always imagined that business was sort of, very.
Speaker:I guess hierarchical, uh, very salesy.
Speaker:I mean, a lot of academics have a fairly, fairly poor, well, not that's unfair,
Speaker:but, you know, quite a few academics, a fairly poor, uh, view of, of businessmen
Speaker:and, and what they tried to do.
Speaker:Um, but I was amazed in, in, in what was described in Maverick and
Speaker:how Semco worked on what seemed like completely unbelievable,
Speaker:uh, and unconventional lines.
Speaker:It certainly did transform my business as well.
Speaker:It transformed Happy from being a micromanaging company to one that
Speaker:was based on trust and freedom.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, I mean, I mean, you know, one of the sort of questions you
Speaker:sent me earlier is what, you know, how did it transform your company?
Speaker:Well, I didn't have a company, so it didn't transform a company at all.
Speaker:I just, it just made me want to start a company.
Speaker:Um, and that's, that's really one of the reasons why I thought, well, actually,
Speaker:do these companies really exist?
Speaker:So I tried to look, uh, 'cause I was deciding between academia or
Speaker:moving into some other, and I was always interested in technology.
Speaker:You know, we, I'd set some of the first servers of, on the internet
Speaker:back in the early nineties.
Speaker:Um, so, so yeah, it was always an interest of, of mine 'cause I'd worked closely
Speaker:with computers for, for a long time.
Speaker:Um, and I thought it'd be great to set up a company, uh, around
Speaker:technology basically, and software.
Speaker:Um, but I couldn't find, um, anything, any companies that we talked about,
Speaker:Maverick or Semler or any of the ideas except for one called Happy.
Speaker:So I was amazed to see that it was actually in London, you know?
Speaker:So, um, I think I called you and, or sent you an email and
Speaker:said, uh, I'd love to hear more.
Speaker:And, and that's how we, how we met.
Speaker:And that's, um, how I started sort of thinking about how I could set up a
Speaker:company, uh, with, with some friends to do, to sort of essentially do
Speaker:sort of software, but really try and apply, uh, these, uh, these principles
Speaker:that, that I'm sort of reading about.
Speaker:And have you managed to apply them?
Speaker:I've tried Henry, but oh God, it, what is it?
Speaker:It's now so 22 years later and it's, it's not as easy as it seems in
Speaker:the books as, as I've found anyway.
Speaker:Well, there's a few things I guess, that it's, it's, it's easier to, to,
Speaker:well, you don't, you don't ha you hardly need them when you're small.
Speaker:So when there's just a few of you, uh, you know, if it's sort of.
Speaker:Hacker News styles of eating ramen and just building software in your,
Speaker:in your sort of bedroom, it's, it's sort of, you know, you don't really
Speaker:need these principles that much.
Speaker:You just work, you know?
Speaker:So tell me what Risr does.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So, um, we're a software service provider for education training.
Speaker:So essentially we, we provide the software that helps, uh, organizations
Speaker:manage and run their assessments.
Speaker:So exams, practical exams, uh, workplace based assessments.
Speaker:And, and not just that, also sort of, you know, apprenticeships, continuing
Speaker:profession development and so on.
Speaker:And we started in the medical field.
Speaker:Um, so, uh, significant number of undergraduates, say in the UK are assessed
Speaker:using our, our software, um, as well as postgraduates in royal colleges in the
Speaker:UK, Ireland, um, and we, we have offices in, in the uk, uh, Australia and Canada.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And tell, tell us, based on Maverick, how have you managed to
Speaker:get outta the way as the founder?
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well, well, well, COVID helped a lot.
Speaker:Uh, um, I, I think what, what, well, I kind of liked about what, what Ricardo
Speaker:Semler sort of described is that, and he would often sort of get things going
Speaker:and then start stepping away once, once he sort of, you know, started them.
Speaker:So I kind of took that sort of mantra to, to heart mostly not,
Speaker:not always, but as much as I could.
Speaker:So I'd start something and then hopefully somebody else would get interested and I'd
Speaker:start sort of walking away from it and, and letting those people, uh, take it on.
Speaker:And I can honestly say for.
Speaker:I, I think several years I've not been involved in any real
Speaker:customer engagements with anything.
Speaker:You know, I don't, don't, I don't make those sort of decisions at all.
Speaker:Uh, uh, you know, I just focus more on the structure, the finance, uh,
Speaker:but the structure and what, what we're trying to do and how we achieve it.
Speaker:But I don't get in the way of, of people trying to do any of those things.
Speaker:So can you give examples of where people do have trust and freedom?
Speaker:So our, our idea is basically to have autonomous units, i e autonomous
Speaker:teams, which are able to make as much decisions as they feel comfortable with.
Speaker:But if they really have issues and they can't decide, then they need
Speaker:more information either from HQ as we call it, or they need to talk to other
Speaker:teams, which they obviously can, that's, that's sort of, uh, straightforward.
Speaker:So with, within, within each of those units, they are free to decide on.
Speaker:Where to find new customers, how to, service those customers, how to grow the
Speaker:accounts, how to support those customers.
Speaker:Um, but what we try and do is then provide, uh, an underlying kind kind of
Speaker:layer, which allows that they don't have to reinvent stuff so they don't have to
Speaker:think about payroll or how to do sort of compliance and admin, so all those
Speaker:sort of systems are provided for them.
Speaker:But, but within those systems, um, and obviously, you know, How to communicate
Speaker:sort of our Slack channels and, and, and, and sort of email and so on.
Speaker:That's all provided as well.
Speaker:Um, but within that, they are free to, to operate on how, uh,
Speaker:on the best way of servicing their customers and their markets.
Speaker:'Cause, you know, look from the UK we said the Australia team.
Speaker:From the UK during Covid.
Speaker:So that, that was not, that was not easy.
Speaker:But we just knew that as much as, you know, we speak the same language, but
Speaker:we're not Australians, so we don't know how Australians might think, how
Speaker:they might operate would make much more sense for those units themselves to be
Speaker:making as much decisions as possible.
Speaker:Um, so, so effectively each unit is free to make what decisions it
Speaker:thinks is right for their customers, unless it impacts other, other units
Speaker:or center or something like that, in which case they can then seek advice.
Speaker:So that's how we try and operate.
Speaker:Um, a long time ago we were trying to figure out how to do profit share, you
Speaker:know, so 25% of the profit when we make a profit is divided, uh, among staff.
Speaker:So we weren't sure what was the fairest way of doing that.
Speaker:You know, should we, we, you know, we had said developers in.
Speaker:In Eastern Europe, you know, we had, uh, people in London, we had
Speaker:people living in the countryside, we had people, you know, overseas.
Speaker:Uh, what, what's a fair way of dividing out profit?
Speaker:Should we do it by percentage?
Speaker:Obviously that favors people who earn more money.
Speaker:Um, should we do it by, um, an absolute amount or should we do it depending on
Speaker:if you are a developer, that's worth more than if you are a project manager,
Speaker:you know, all, all sorts of issues.
Speaker:And I remember my.
Speaker:Uh, so co-founder and I, mark sat down, we sort of going back
Speaker:and forth for quite a long time.
Speaker:And in the end I said, Marcus, there's never gonna be a fair way where
Speaker:every single person is gonna be happy with whatever formula we come up
Speaker:with, and it'll just be impossible.
Speaker:Uh, why don't we just say this every year, if we make a profit, say this is
Speaker:a profit this year, you guys and, and, and women, uh, uh, decide on how you're
Speaker:gonna divide this yourselves and you vote on it, and the majority will go.
Speaker:So the, the first year we did it, they CC'd us in on all their
Speaker:email conversation, which did go on for quite a long time.
Speaker:It's, it's quite a, quite an interesting discussion, you know, with, with sort
Speaker:of developers, sort of, you know, almost working out algorithms for
Speaker:why they, they were, they were more important than say, project managers.
Speaker:So there's a lot of back and forth, you know, uh, and it went off a
Speaker:few weeks and in the end they'd such divide it evenly by amount.
Speaker:It didn't pour out if you were part-time or full-time, but it was even by amount.
Speaker:Um, wherever you were, uh, whatever you did, uh, it didn't matter.
Speaker:You know, you, you just divided it.
Speaker:The next year, it took people a day to decide the same thing.
Speaker:And then the year after that, it was just same as last time, yes, same as last time.
Speaker:So now we've effectively incorporated that and said, look, it, it, we divided
Speaker:priority even the, uh, by amount, uh, the profit, which seems to work
Speaker:well, you know, that sort of, um, It means that we, we, we haven't had
Speaker:to fight and have issues and, and so on and try and work out some, some
Speaker:fair method and in general, we don't seem to have any complaints about it.
Speaker:And, and that's, that's quite, that's quite good.
Speaker:'cause that means that people, your staff themselves, are involved.
Speaker:Whereas if, if you'd done it with Marcus, there would've been a
Speaker:lot of people probably weren't, who weren't satisfied with it.
Speaker:We did try and let people set their own salaries.
Speaker:Um, I'd thought about it a lot and I'd read a lot of, sort of, you know,
Speaker:articles and blog posts about how, you know, it's great to let people set their
Speaker:own salary and, and so on, and here's, here's, here's what you should do.
Speaker:And so we tried an experiment and we sort of got a group of, I think
Speaker:it was about 12 people, and said, look, You know, here's, obviously we
Speaker:can't give more money than there is in the, in, in the, in the budget.
Speaker:But here's, here's effectively the, uh, lump sumer money, which will, from
Speaker:which your salaries would be worked out, you know, for the next year.
Speaker:We sit together and we've got sort of, you know, we give 'em guidelines, you
Speaker:know, you can benchmarks, you can sort of, you know, here's a process that we
Speaker:suggest, you know, you discuss about what you contributed, you know, what
Speaker:you think you're worth, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, what you might get in
Speaker:the marketplace, all these things that we've read about, which sounded great, and
Speaker:then work out what your salary should be.
Speaker:And I'd thought about it quite a lot and a few of my major concerns are I don't
Speaker:want to be the sort of organization where office politics rules, um, hence
Speaker:the lack of hierarchy and, uh, and having autonomous teams and so on.
Speaker:Uh, and I don't want to be the sort of organization where it sort
Speaker:of rewards people to make it look like they're doing good work rather
Speaker:than doing good work, you know?
Speaker:So it's sort of, you know, trying to avoid those sort of traps, which I feel
Speaker:quite a few organizations fall into.
Speaker:But anyway, the upshot was that we didn't get unanimous, uh, uh, agreement.
Speaker:So we abandoned that, uh, and said, okay, that didn't work.
Speaker:Uh, and then I remember, I remember I'd read, you know, glowing
Speaker:blog post about how this worked.
Speaker:And I remember ringing up the CEO of a company came up with sort
Speaker:of first a second on Google when you typed in self set salaries.
Speaker:And I said, how did it go?
Speaker:'cause we, we, we couldn't do it.
Speaker:He said, oh, no, no, we failed as well.
Speaker:Just said that it.
Speaker:So we abandoned it in the end.
Speaker:We couldn't, we couldn't.
Speaker:I said, but you're still all over the internet, sort of talking about it.
Speaker:He said, we should probably sort of take those blog posts
Speaker:down or sort of date them.
Speaker:But yeah, so it, that was an example which was, we, we learned a lot.
Speaker:We definitely learned a lot.
Speaker:Um, and, you know, but it was certainly something, it made me, it made me
Speaker:realize that it's, it's much harder than it looks, um, and you do need help
Speaker:getting this stuff to work properly.
Speaker:You really do,
Speaker:And how has Happy helped you on this journey?
Speaker:Well, first of all, it's been great talking to you.
Speaker:But especially in those days, it was very difficult to find anyone who, I
Speaker:mean, everyone thought these ideas were.
Speaker:But really quite crazy, didn't they?
Speaker:I mean, I think they did it back in the mid nineties and early two thousands.
Speaker:It was sort of, you know, this is just nonsense, so it was actually wonderful
Speaker:to be able to speak to someone who'd actually been through it and, and sort
Speaker:of understood what the issues were.
Speaker:Uh, we love the Happy conferences, which are, is that, again, you're
Speaker:meeting a whole bunch of other people who, who are thinking on similar
Speaker:lines, have had lot of the similar problems and sort of, you know, ideas
Speaker:on how to improve them and so on.
Speaker:Um, quite a few people go on your leadership courses, , and we love your
Speaker:coaching, you know, Cathy Busani who sort of, I dunno how many people, people
Speaker:she coaches from, uh, in the company, but I think it's quite a few, including
Speaker:me, and, and they're invaluable.
Speaker:because you're now, you're now a very profitable company, aren't you?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I mean, that's almost by fluke rather than just design.
Speaker:well, we, you know, COVID.
Speaker:Was great for us because, you know, we'd, uh, for years we'd been
Speaker:sort of helping people move to, um, paperless sort of assessment.
Speaker:And so not, you know, people would use a lot of paper, people use a lot of,
Speaker:test centers or, or, or, or, and so, you know, they, they're used to doing
Speaker:things the old way, which is fine.
Speaker:But obviously more and more people had to move to, to sort of
Speaker:move things online and, and, and sort of, um, remotely and so on.
Speaker:Uh, and then Covid hit, and then suddenly people saying to us, uh,
Speaker:you know, when we want to do that over three years with you, we now do
Speaker:that in sort of the next five weeks.
Speaker:You know, suddenly everything accelerated, uh, which I think, you know, was
Speaker:incredibly difficult time for us in one way because we had sort of, you know,
Speaker:deliver and grow and, and, and, and improve the product and add, add, add
Speaker:sort of features to, to help video remote assessment and, and so on, which, which,
Speaker:which we managed to do, managed to do.
Speaker:So, yeah, that's been, that's been good.
Speaker:So, we grew a lot during Covid, so, you know, we.
Speaker:So the, the teams in in Canada and Australia and UK grew significantly.
Speaker:I think we would've at least doubled in size, um, quite quickly, which
Speaker:again caused us as issues in terms of scaling some of these ideas and
Speaker:understanding what we need to do.
Speaker:Um, but yes, no, and I, hopefully that is down to, you know, the way
Speaker:we work, uh, and the way we operate.
Speaker:Uh, I, I don't, I honestly don't think it would've been as easy for us to respond
Speaker:too quickly, without that sort of freedom and autonomy that people had to just
Speaker:suggest things, try things, and, and stop working with customers more quickly.
Speaker:I think if we'd have been more hierarchical, it would've taken a
Speaker:lot longer to get approval and, you know, we probably would've spent a lot
Speaker:longer and not being able to innovate quickly enough, um, so I think that's,
Speaker:that's been really good for us.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:And tell me, Z, what are your three top tips for a happy workplace?
Speaker:Do you, you honest answer?
Speaker:I really don't know.
Speaker:Um, and know this is like, you're, you're a company called Happy, but,
Speaker:you, you, you, you remove a whole bunch of other problems, right?
Speaker:So, you know, my, for me it's like, okay, I would say personally
Speaker:freedom, you know, having freedom and autonomy is really important.
Speaker:Uh, and I, and I imagine that's important for most people.
Speaker:And I think, and I think a lot of people absolutely, agree
Speaker:with that and they like that.
Speaker:The flip side of it is that, you know, all these things come at a cost.
Speaker:So if you have freedom and autonomy, that means that everyone in your
Speaker:organization has freedom and autonomy.
Speaker:Um, and then if you're used to telling people what to do and, and, uh,
Speaker:you know, you suddenly can't or if you so, so, so, so, so, I, I guess
Speaker:it's a slightly long-winded way of saying that you, you just make sure
Speaker:you've got the right sort of people.
Speaker:If you are a certain sort of organization, and if you're a good fit for certain sort
Speaker:of people, it's great, but other people might not be that happy, you know, because
Speaker:they're, they're not actually a good fit and I'm not, and I don't even think that
Speaker:necessarily everyone wants freedom and, and so it's not necessarily, but for me,
Speaker:I, I think they do.
Speaker:I mean, when I talk to audiences, they all seem to want, they don't,
Speaker:nobody likes being told what to do.
Speaker:No, but does everyone then like being in a company where you
Speaker:can't tell anyone what to do?
Speaker:that
Speaker:You know, you know, my, my philosophy is that, that you,
Speaker:people don't want complete freedom.
Speaker:They want freedom within guidelines.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And it, it took us a while to discover that, Henry and thank you to you and, uh,
Speaker:you know, and Kathy to help us navigate.
Speaker:So, you know, so, so, so that, that's exactly it.
Speaker:So what I think what we sort of swung too far the other way, uh, in the
Speaker:early days, um, people had a lot of freedom and they didn't really have any
Speaker:guidelines, 'cause we didn't really need them 'cause there were only a few of us.
Speaker:And, and that culture I think probably carried on a bit too far.
Speaker:And it's only when.
Speaker:I started talking to you and sort of, you know, reading other books
Speaker:like, know Frederic Laloux, you know, Reinventing Organizations.
Speaker:I love that book.
Speaker:Uh, Bert So, and Jo Block, you know, all the ideas, content within that.
Speaker:And I realized actually they have frameworks.
Speaker:You know, they have guidelines.
Speaker:Without that, it's just sort of, you know, it's, it's, it's sort of chaos, you know.
Speaker:And that's what we spent quite a lot of time.
Speaker:Putting in place, uh, and ensuring that people have those, those
Speaker:guidelines within which to make, make those decisions be free.
Speaker:You have to have some framework.
Speaker:I think that's, that's one of the top lessons that, that we've realized.
Speaker:Um, so I think definitely that I think look, working in a, in an
Speaker:organization and company that is actually trying to do something
Speaker:worthwhile in the world, you know?
Speaker:Um, so actually helping train and, and educate people, to me personally
Speaker:seems like real worthwhile thing to do.
Speaker:I think everyone who works here does, uh, you know, if I was working in some
Speaker:other, I don't know, gambling or some of the, some other, the company, it wouldn't
Speaker:be, you know, I wouldn't be happy.
Speaker:Maybe some people would be.
Speaker:But I just, you know, it's basically you have to have a company that align with
Speaker:your, your, um, your, your goals, I guess.
Speaker:Um, being able to do what you enjoy I think is important, or at least
Speaker:being able to see that what you are doing, even if you're not enjoying
Speaker:it in the moment, which let's face it, we all have to do, but you know,
Speaker:that it's, it's for something that is worthwhile or is something that
Speaker:will lead to, you know, enjoyment.
Speaker:So that, and for me, uh, not having company politics, uh, not having,
Speaker:you know, this sort of, climbing a hierarchy, you know, that sort
Speaker:of thing is really important.
Speaker:I mean, I've, I've partly read, I dunno if you ever read Bullshit Jobs, um,
Speaker:by, uh, David Graeber, I think it is.
Speaker:it's fascinating.
Speaker:Uh, and, uh, you know, one of the things he says is that essentially capitalism
Speaker:is supposed to be, you know, a really efficient deployment of resources
Speaker:and so on, and obviously he's got a certain viewpoint, but if you start
Speaker:looking at, uh, and, and trying to understand how the, how sort of like
Speaker:corporate organizations work, it's almost like a feudal hierarchy has been
Speaker:brought into a corporate organization.
Speaker:It's really all about that.
Speaker:You know, and that's, it's not efficient at all, you know, and it's actually
Speaker:just feudal court politics, you know?
Speaker:And that's, and I just, just hate the idea of that, you know?
Speaker:So again, not having that, uh, sort of, you know, negative, I guess.
Speaker:would, would, I think, make me happy and hopefully make other people happy as well.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well, thank you very much, Zahid.
Speaker:That's been, that's been a fabulous, uh, fabulous session.
Speaker:Thank you, Henry.
Speaker:it was really good to hear the honesty and the authenticity of Zahid.
Speaker:Know, It is the fact that he said it was not easy to implement
Speaker:any of these strategies.
Speaker:You know, when you wanna change your organization, it's difficult.
Speaker:So the whole thing of keeping with, it's really important.
Speaker:But even at the end when you talked about what your top
Speaker:tips and he said, I don't know.
Speaker:You know, again, love that, you know, just being honest.
Speaker:Um, but what really stood out for me was the conversation about profit sharing.
Speaker:You know, where it took, he was very brave in asking everybody about
Speaker:what they think or how they think that the profit should be shared.
Speaker:And they voted.
Speaker:And they've come to a point where everybody gets the same pro rata
Speaker:but it's shared equally across.
Speaker:Well, what was interesting was obviously that, um, the, the salaries thing, um,
Speaker:that people chose their own, people that he, well, no, he, he looked at people
Speaker:choosing their own salaries, but they didn't actually, in the end, go with it.
Speaker:Now at Happy.
Speaker:We, we haven't done that, have we?
Speaker:We haven't done that.
Speaker:Um, what we've done at Happy is we have a democratically elected salary
Speaker:panel, which everybody votes for.
Speaker:Um, we then choose, um, what, what should be in the pot, based on last
Speaker:year's, uh, last year's profit and this, this year's projected profit,
Speaker:we look at what should be in the pot and everybody then votes on that.
Speaker:Um, and then people, uh, put in their salary to the
Speaker:Democratic elected salary panel.
Speaker:And I think that that works better.
Speaker:I mean, I dunno if there are any people who have adopted choose your own salary.
Speaker:And I think Ricard Seminar did at some point, and the, I the, I think the idea
Speaker:there was that you would, you would say what salary you wanted and then the team
Speaker:would decide whether you, whether, whether they'd take you on board with that.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Alright, so maybe we should put a shout out.
Speaker:If anybody, any organizations that have done that, we'd love to hear from
Speaker:you, you know, to see how that works.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:That would be good.
Speaker:That would be good.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So, check out happy.co.uk..
Speaker:And our podcast site.
Speaker:And please leave a comment, share any ideas or anything
Speaker:that you would like to discuss.
Speaker:You know, and again, a shout out for anybody that, uh, that has a
Speaker:organization where you choose your own salary, would love to hear from you.
Speaker:So let's create happy workplaces.
